I would say no to guardian Jack. 1. It's kinda saying "I'm against you Pitch" 2. Only reasons why Jack joined the guardians was his memories of a sacrifice and want to belong. He doesn't have his memories here and well, he has Pitch now. Also the friendship he build with the guardians during the movie isn't here. 3. Moon ignored him for 300 years, stole his memories, was all silent... and then wanted his victory against Pitch Black by using Jack. Jack was chosen for that victory, nothing else brought MiM's interest.
Even in the movie I find Jack's decision odd. He kinda forgets his pain and the fact he is used (ignored for lifetimes and when moon says "I want him" other guardians suddenly want to be friends) and that he wanted to be a free spirit. But maybe it was to teach kids forgiveness or patience or to listen your elders. I'm certain that even if Jack had said no and protected children on his own, guardians would had still been his friends.
that has to be the most thought-out reason yet to have Jack not be a Guardian. I applaud you for taking notice and doing your (movie) homework.
I believe Jack's final decision, in the movie, was motivated solely by Jamie's belief in him. Something he does have in this story even if he doesn't have his memories (which blatantly point him to being a Guardian due to his selfless act).
I also think that the Guardians NEED Jack more for just the sake of defeating Pitch. As you said, they didn't show much interest in him before... which we assume is right, but there's no way of knowing for sure because the movie doesn't really show it. We know Bunny & he interacted (the infamous blizzard of '68) and there's hints that he interacts with Sandy on rare occasions to (one being he seems to be most friendly towards Sandy after emerging from the sack at North's).
I don't think Jack was chosen to be Guardian just for the sake of being able to take down Pitch (which is kinda obvious seeing as how near the end Jack couldn't take the Boogeyman out on his own because he'd become too powerful), I think part of the reason MiM chose Jack has to do with what we see in the Warren, where Jack shows the Guardians just how much they've distanced themselves (far too much really) from the very children they are sworn to protect and bring joy to. I think his role is also to help the four reconnect with the world and to come out of their "hideouts" and actually invest more in what modern children are like by interaction.
Something that Jack is perfect for because he has spent most - if not all - his immortal life hanging around kids and trying to get them to see him through many various ways. Who better among spirits to know children than Jack?
As for being his friends even if he had shot them down a second time... yeah, they probably would have been but I'm guessing they also would have spent the rest of his immortal life trying to convince him that he was meant to be one as well. Jack's memories pretty much sealed the deal on proving to Jack he was meant to be a Guardian (something I've taken out of the equation, for now); the memories answered his question that he had put to the moon earlier... about being chosen, but not being told why.
So, at this point, if he DOES choose to be a Guardian, the question is will Jamie have (as in the movie originally) really been the deciding factor or is it something else? Something deeper? Jack's not as simple of a character as everyone would like to think (seen from the movie) he's pretty complex actually, one of the most complex and I only say that because he reflects my own personality; he and I are almost one and the same as far as personality goes (no, I'm not AS mischievous or carefree... but I can be) and we've suffered through similar things. So I relate to him the most, I understand him very well.
Man this is a heck of a lot longer than I had originally planned for! You got me ranting LOL. Anyway, thanks for leaving a review. :)
Heh, why comments should be written with computer, not a phone :D Many things was left out on my part.
Yes, Jamie had a part on Jack's decision, after all he had been alone so long and longed for a believer. He also saw Jamie "special" since his believe was very strong as we know. Never thought Jack as a link between other guardians and the children. I saw the part and actually giggled about North's silly answer but i kinda just let it be. Mostly cause they even shirked the children some point (don't wake up children, have a hideout and bribe kids) like it was a bad thing to be seen. Thanks for bringing it up! But again, why did MiM wait so long? In order to test Jack? To make him the link that was needed? Well, that was a VERY cruel way to do it.
And yup, I mainly think he has met at least North, Sandy and Bunny face to face, North because Jack has some new clothes and he recognized Jack right away. It might also be assumed Jack has met Pitch as well... or they've just heard of each others, which mean Jack has encountered spirits before but for some reason didn't get a friend. And maybe he wasn't the straight weapon against Pitch, but without Jack the last light would have gone out. And Jack was very powerful to begin with.
And yes, you're not the only one who understands Jack, he has his inner conflicts and you could write just 20 long chapters about his pain being alone or the joy he has with the children and not quit get it right. I can also try, but the words will never come out right, feelings are not words. Jack's like one of the children really, innocent but knows more than we wait from him, smiling but has inner sorrow, mischievous but means well. I actually love it how Jack didn't turn into dark!Jack after he went with Pitch, there's no way Jack could be evil. And that leads to his forgiving nature. But still for some reason he thought it's justified to let Pitch rot with his own fears even though Jack understood Pitch as much as Pitch understood Jack. A plot hole i always fight with but again i believe that Jack went to check on Pitch later.
But I'm still saying NO to guardianship because the main reason, it's against Pitch. Guardians ARE against Pitch, he's their enemy and will never be sp,ething else. Their reaction about Jack's memory box is proof enough and the fact Pitch shall not have ANY believers, like there shouldn't be fear. Jack is neutral party in your story atm, but guardians want him with them against Pitch and Pitch wants Jack against the guardians/as a neutral party when he can accept Pitch.
The thing is, you can't have Pitch and guardians. Not fully in "movie canon" set-up. I trust you know the reasons why. In fanfictions there's always understanding Tooth, father figure North or the most realistic trusting Sandy. And with Sandy's case he knows but doesn't tell the others, leaving their relationship what it would be, a secret. But that works only if their past is like canon, not when Jack is Pitch partner during the main events. Just think about how it would hurt Pitch, I don't want that pain to anyone. The other way is what you are likely to use, Pitch mixes with Kozmotis (no offence but i hate that conclusion, Kozmotis is dead and if alive loves his passed wife and daughter, not Jack. Only thing left of Koz is his memories and reason, fearlings work with instincts. Pitch is nothing more than the madness left by fearlings in Kozmotis body, another person, not sleeping Kozmotis waiting for love. In books nightlight made Pitch feel but he cannot be the man he once was or a mix. It's Pitch or Kozmotis only).
But this is my opinion and your story. It's ALWAYS up to you how this will end and I'll respect it. I do read and enjoy these kind of "what ifs" but my main area is "after canon" so I'm terrible sorry if i sound mean or "only my opinion is right". XD
A good question. It's hard to say why exactly MiM did what he did, but a prevailing theory is that he didn't do it because he wanted to, but because creating Jack took so much out of him that the only thing he could after he had was tell Jack his name. That he needed to gather himself again and... sadly, that meant leaving Jack & the Guardians to themselves.
Yeah, it's kind of implied he has met at least 2 of the four face-to-face before, based on the introductions. I don't know that Jack has encountered Pitch before, but he obviously knows who Pitch is though his response to the name means they MIGHT have met. Hard to say, there's so many implications in the movie that just aren't outright answered at some point. I think the reason Jack hasn't gained a friend is because no one understands that his carefree, fun-loving, pranking attitude is his way of making friends. My guess would be that his encounter has (sadly) been the same with other spirits (like the Groundhog for example) as it was with Bunny. He didn't mean any harm, but they didn't see it that way.
Yeah, Jack really was powerful to begin with, which makes me wonder how much more powerful he'll grow to be with believers. So true! Words are definitely not feelings... but you can try with them. Ha ha... yeah... no. Jack doesn't have the personality to become "dark Jack" just because he's with Pitch. It's not in his nature and Pitch wouldn't want to drive Jack away so he'd never force Jack to do anything he'd be uncomfortable doing or that would go against his nature. I won't say there isn't a for sure way that Jack wouldn't become evil, to be honest... I think he MIGHT have had an "evil phase" at some point in his 300 years but when it got him nowhere he reverted back again because all he really wanted was to be believed in, to be seen, so he couldn't really be evil in the same way Pitch is or anyone else for that matter. As for the plot hole... I don't think that Jack really knows what a Nightmare can do. I wager that you are right and that some time... (while credits roll) Jack is searching for a way back into Pitch's lair (since the entrance Jack knows of is gone... he has to find another...) so he can check on the shade. Jack has too big of a heart to not... and it's evident in the look on his face as he watches Pitch be dragged away. Out of the whole group of Guardians, Jack is really the only one who sees Pitch for who he really is.
You're right... Jack is neutral, for the time being. There is a reason I want to get him out of that though, because in the end he is going to have to make a choice. His nature won't let him just stay on the sidelines when the two parties clash. He may not agree with the Guardians in how they have treated him, but he doesn't agree with Pitch taking over the world either.
Hmmm, well my take is that there are remnants of Koz in Pitch. He will never be Koz again (because you know after thousands of years that doesn't make any sense anyway because let's face it... no one can really "sleep" that long while evil takes over and still be intact). I think that, instead, there are pieces of that man, which is why Pitch tried to get Jack on his side in the first place. He wanted someone to be his companion like the Guardians had one another. He was tired of being alone, one of the remnants of being Koz. Pitch won't suddenly change into a good guy (which makes NO sense 'cuz Fearlings) or anything. Even if he didn't have the Fearlings, the man Koz was is gone and I'm not removing the Fearlings from the equation here (because that would mean epic battle and just... no).
No apology needed. You don't "sound" mean or anything to me. Unlike some emotional weirdos that float about the net, I don't impress emotion onto words because they are just that. I mean, unless you use words to specifically display a certain emotion I really just take them at face value. Like reading a book. I understand where you're coming from too, while I like the "what ifs" as much as you do, I like them to make logical sense... and some just don't because they think that if you remove evil all is well. They forget that life doesn't work that way and no story should either, unless you're telling it to a five year old.
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