Comment on The Party Fiend

  1. My friend keith (Guest) on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 08:35AM UTC

    I think its the long history of people making edgy stories about his characters geting grusomely murdered and his sheer hate of NTR that pushed him to soften the setting and any chance he got

    Early translations were a bit more dark/unforgiving and it felt more like a cool "the bad guys win" then the clusterfuck we have now.

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    1. Ogat on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 09:12AM UTC

      The early translations actually made the setting somewhat more acceptable since it at least kind of acknowledged that the Mamono aren’t these perfect ultimate saviors. I am appreciative of the unintended honesty that was back then.

      It also helped that—if the Mamono ever went through with the Demon Lord’s ambition of getting rid of all human women via DE Corruption and turning all men into Incubi—they’d be shooting themselves in the foot since they can’t make Incubi sons… and then they themselves would someday face extinction.

      That old version at least had the bad guys getting some well-deserved karma for dragging down another species to a fate they never asked for.

      Now? Not only is the setting legit lying to itself about the Mamono—parading them as some type of lewd wholesome heroine—they’re now also about to get away with basically soft genociding Humanity via selective breeding/corruption. The Demon Lord of the this current version has essentially found a way for Mamono to give birth to Incubi. Even more incentive to just drive humans as they are extinct.

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      1. My friend keith (Guest) on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 09:19AM UTC

        Worth pointing out that KC hates the genocide thing
        He said that humanity is so numerous in comparison to monsters that the demon lord would fix the male birthing problem before any issue like it arrives
        But people directly mail him about how hes wrong about his own setting dispite the fact that he can alter the lore as he pleases

        Personally i tend stick to smaller grade stories (like that Ironbeast guy and his lilim) where the grand scale of "EVERYTHING IS FUCKED" is that much of a narritive concern"

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        1. Ogat on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 10:00AM UTC

          I mean, to be fair to the ones DM'ing KC, they're not exactly wrong. The Demon Lord's goal is stated pretty clearly with no room for interpretation within the canon lore. Part of which, IIRC, KC himself hasn't changed nor actually addressed in the Q&As.

          "The monster lord's objective is to change all men into incubi, and all women into monsters, thus bringing about the 'unification of humans and monsters into one race.'" excerpt from MGE-1, p. 230, 'The Utopia the Monster Lord Dreams Of (considered canon)

          Note the "all" word used when it comes to her intentions. All men. All women. This heavily implies that, even if Lady Demon Lord manages to solve the birthing problem early, she'll still keep going until the whole world is a Demon Realm filled only with her Incubi-Mamono Master Race.

          Sure, the rest of her followers are slackers thanks to being spoonfed everything in their lives...but it's still happening slowly but surely.

          I do wonder if KC will every pick up the slack and change this as well, though. To my knowledge, it's been a long while since he's given out any lore updates.

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          1. My friend keith (Guest) on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 10:06AM UTC

            Last lore update was stuff that came with the balrog and the cities they rule
            Though we might get more lore when pale ridrr becomes public

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          2. DearthOfInsight on Chapter 3 Tue 22 Oct 2024 04:03AM UTC

            This is definitely a feature, not a bug. I assume KC views monsters as transhuman but still fundamentally the same (certaintly implied by the wording "unification"). Incubi are just magically enhanced humans with increased horniness (hardly inhuman), so it seems unreasonable to me to consider them something genuinely monstrous. Mamono are definitely more ambiguous, though; some, like dark mages, are like incubi really just funky humans, but I could see very bizarre ones like living armors falling outside the bounds most people would draw (though not the ones I would, I admit).

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            1. Ogat on Chapter 3 Tue 22 Oct 2024 06:19AM UTC

              Honestly, if that's what KC thinks about human women turned into Mamono then I'm curious to know the stuff that he's smoking.

              Beyond superficial differences, canon lore on monsterization and the biological/metaphysical aspects of both Mamono and Human Women very clearly shows stark fundamental differences between the two species.

              Some stuff mentioned in his own lore:
              - Mamono are a hybrid type of succubus and another monster type (no human part mentioned)
              - Mamono practically need semen to survive since they can't generate mana and infect their whole atmosphere with DE. Human women don't.
              - The need for essence via semen all but making Mamono obsessive over finding a lifelong mate to make children with. Human women tend to have varying degrees of urges in terms of this.

              And that's just from the top of my head. And let's not get into how monstrous instincts/values are canonically stated to overwrite human instincts/values. If both species are fundamentally the same, why are there overwrites happening on the mental and soul level?

              As for incubi, it's honestly very debateable at best. Despite the fact that they arguably only get very minor bodily changes, their minds and souls still get overwritten by the same monstrous instincts/values. Because of that, they seem more like monster-human hybrids rather than actual pure humans. They just don't have the monster-y bits like the Mamono do.

              (P.S. I've also read KC's Q&As and they honestly don't help the current situation.)

              And even if eventually all readers accept that Incubi are somehow human after some mental gymnastics, it's still pretty horrible because 50% of humanity (women) is still getting genocided via selective breeding.

              This is why I think KC has written himself into a really bad corner and now it feels as if him and the pro-Mamono crowd are lying to themselves about the current world status. Which is funnily ironic from a meta POV since (IIRC) one of the main themes of MGE is "stop lying to yourself".

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              1. DearthOfInsight on Chapter 3 Tue 22 Oct 2024 03:41PM UTC

                Regarding specific points:
                From the ask.fm Q&A:

                20) Can monstergirls of the wolf-family (Werewolf, Hellhound, ect.) eat things that real dogs can't [omitted]
                Monster girls are living beings that are half monster and half human

                42) [omitted] Also is it possible for monster girls that have essence or semen as food to survive without it? [omitted]
                ...even if they have semen or essence as staple food, if it's just for surviving then they can live from just the same food as humans.

                Also:

                136) 136)Are there any detailed race variations, etc. for incubus? (like shota incubus, etc.)
                No. Incubus is "human" in terms of race. That's a matter of individual differences.

                KC makes no distinction between humans and incubi in terms of species. As for mamono, they are close enough to
                1) crossbreed and (in the future) produce incubi (humans)
                2) view humans as their own species
                3) participate in human society without major conflict (e.g. in Zipangu)
                4) reincarnate into human bodies and vice versa

                But this is all semantic and toying with the specific terms people are using. Philosophically, "what KC calls them" is only weak evidence, and we should draw a line over which "humanity" is lost. To me, that line is the human mind (not brain, important distinction in this setting), and I don't think most mamono cross it. Becoming more lustful, even vastly more lustful, is not enough; otherwise the average "hypnotism corrupted" hentai FMC loses her humanity.

                All this assumes you care about the existence of a group called "humanity" as an abstract, of course, which isn't a given for everyone - I have to imagine there are some posthumanists of various flavors in this fandom, though I wouldn't count myself among them.

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      3. AfWhite on Chapter 3 Mon 21 Oct 2024 06:53PM UTC

        It does read as if KC wanted to make a Noblebright/Heroic setting but somehow made a Grimdark one by accident, then tried to "correct" it by softening up all the edges around the Mamono and keeping all the ones in the Gods camp.
        This setting desperately needs some human wins, even if they mean nothing in the grand scale of things, sometimes it gives me severe Warhammer Fantasy: The End Times flashbacks.

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        1. DearthOfInsight on Chapter 3 Tue 22 Oct 2024 03:48AM UTC

          I think most of the old darkness arose from MGE-as-corruption-porn that the setting was most likely conceived as, most obvious in a lot of the early works. Then for whatever reason (possibly being burned by chunks of his fandom, possibly influence from other softer monster girl works like monmusu, possibly just post-nut clarity, idk) he decided to build his porn setting into a utopian hugbox by sanding off as many edges as he could bear to. Story of changing priorities and a past thar haunts the fandom, I think.

          I actually do feel kind of bad for KC, I will admit. Moreso than any universe I can think of, MGE has attracted an almost-hatedom of people who are absolutely determined to interpret it as negatively as possible. Undoubtedly, of course, there's DOTA to consider, and nothing should stop you from telling a good story, but I think there's a fundamental dishonesty in people insisting their grimdark stories are just as canon as the cutesy optimistic ones.

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